Homepage

Our Head of Machine Learning & AI recruitment, Anna Heneghan, is back to discuss diversity in tech and the huge benefits of not just more women in tech, but diversity in all areas. Her guest for episode 2 is the talented Priscilla Boyd, who has worked in various software engineering jobs in the UK and US and has been an integral part of forming a diverse, high-achieving team at iTech Media. Don’t miss what Priscilla has to say about how diversity is propelling the company forward below. “When I was five, my parents had a computer at home and now and then my Dad worked from home and I’d start playing with Windows 3 and it soon became natural to me,” recalls Priscilla Boyd, talking about where her love of tech was first apparent. “Growing up, I was also very obsessed with Lego just because I wanted to build things, but I eventually realised it doesn’t just have to be hardware that I can build, but it’s software that can make the hardware more useful.” This was a big realisation for Priscilla, who has built a very successful career working in data and engineering roles for the likes of Siemens, and currently works as senior engineering manager at iTech Media, involved with all things data analytics and AI machine learning – a role I’m delighted to say I placed her in. She’s also been a TEDx speaker and is an all-around diversity champion. “For me, it started by having exposure to tech at home and having the encouragement from my parents to just go out and try stuff,” reflects Priscilla on what shaped her career in tech. But like for most women in tech, her timeline wasn’t the most direct and there was a journey and a mindset shift that got her to where she is now. “I didn’t consider software engineering as a career until I had already started a different course at university and realised that wasn't the thing for me.” How can we drive more diversity in tech? I launched this series due to feeling the need for more open conversations about diversity in tech and what better place to start than with this stat: PWC research states 78 students can't name a famous female working in technology, 16 of females have had a career in technology suggested to them, as opposed to 33 males, and 5% of leadership positions in the technology sector are held by women. There’s obviously no quick fix to this, but where can we start? “As a female in engineering I just want to see more of us, but it is going to be a process. Over the years, it’s been changing and growing up I saw others’ parents labelling computers as a thing for boys and I think this has continued throughout the years,” comments Priscilla. “Some people grew up with that perception, so they started tailoring their education with other things in mind because engineering wasn’t necessarily for women. We’re at the stage where we’re seeing a bit of shift, but it might take a bit of time until we see a more equal split. Working and being a leader, these statistics do paint quite an accurate picture. When we look at role models in technology we talk about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, but we also need to talk about the Grace Hoppers of the world too.” How can recruitment processes create a more diverse tech industry? Priscilla is a fantastic example of a woman in tech making strides in changing things for the long term, and her company are clearly invested in making change happen. “In my current role, we’re increasing the size of the team quite substantially and diversity is a focus and a goal,” she explains. “It’s not just a matter of attending a diversity event and being aware it’s about trying to bring more of it in the pipeline by all means.” This means making sure you put in the effort, whether through hiring-related events or working with agencies that specialise in it, according to Priscilla. Later down the pipeline, iTech Media has many practices focused on ensuring candidates are treated the same way, including having as diverse interview panels as possible, consistency in what is asked of candidates so they are evaluated the same way and having a consensus-driven decision-making process. The company also uses tools including gender decoder for job descriptions to use gender-neutral language as much as possible. Priscilla stresses that it’s not solely about the way jobs are listed, but the whole recruitment process being as open as possible; “If the pipeline is no different then you’re not solving the problem you’re just waiting for it and being reactive – there is lots that can be done.” Diversity: more than a box-ticking exercise From my perspective, I feel some people almost need to change the narrative in their head that isn’t just about trying to get as many women in possible as technology. It’s more about focusing on the value of a diverse team environment, which can bring so many different experiences and skills to the table. It’s about having the full scope and doing everything everywhere to have an impact, not just doing a talk or pledging alliance to something. It's about looking at everything from job adverts to the structure of your company and how people are allowed to progress. “...it’s important to flag I’m not just talking about gender diversity, but neurodiversity, and being open to people with disabilities and from other backgrounds.” Diversity, of course, is about more than gender – it’s about openness to everyone and not being afraid to change how you operate. “We have opened up our jobs so you can be either London or Warsaw-based, but also remote, and we’re exploring the possibility of offering roles in other countries,” states Priscilla. “By opening up locations and being a remote-first team, you start with the idea that we can hire people from diverse backgrounds and different perspectives. It’s important to flag I’m not just talking about gender diversity, but neurodiversity, and being open to people with disabilities and from other backgrounds that may not have had the same opportunities as others – this is really important for getting a mixed team.” Why aren’t there many women in engineering? In my last interview with Catherine Oxley, we talked a lot about education and how certain biases can hold women back from pursuing a career in tech. With platforms like Coursera and Udemy, YouTube and loads of other resources, accessibility to learning about tech has never been easier, yet often degree requirements are still a barrier to entry into the industry. This issue feels certainly pressing from my everyday experience working recruitment, and Priscilla is a big advocate of not looking for certain criteria to be met when it comes to candidates’ academic backgrounds. “We don’t have requirements when it comes to degrees or education on purpose,” explains Priscilla. “The reason being you could have had an amazing education, but you decided to move sectors or maybe you didn’t have that privilege to start with, but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t do a job.” “...you could have had an amazing education, but you decided to move sectors or maybe you didn’t have that privilege to start with, but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t do a job.” Priscilla questions the need behind putting out there you require proof of computer science degree to show you can do the work; “I’ve come across amazing people who didn’t have a degree and did the job very well.” I fully back this approach, and that some of these requirements are holding women back from a career in engineering right now, which is especially problematic when you consider women growing up aren’t encouraged to take up subjects relevant for a career in STEM. “I think this is changing, but it’s also for organisations to not just say they are going to get diverse candidates for a role, but think about requirements and the level the person that you actually need to fulfil the job and how you're going to grow that person to learn your skills and progress and become more senior.” She adds, “Don’t just look to fulfil the role with senior candidates that only have this degree with first-class honours, as you are lowering the pool of potentially diverse candidates you can get. It’s really important to think of the why rather than just putting the requirements out there.” Why is diversity in tech so important? “I’ve been fortunate that every team I’ve worked in I’ve had great people around me from diverse backgrounds like me,” says Priscilla on how a diverse workplace has helped her in her work and life. “I’m from a half Brazilian and half Japanese family, so diversity is part of who I am and is key.” She continues: “There have been situations in my life where I would maybe dress or talk a certain way, and I think over time I realised that there is so much value for me as a human being to the authentic self that I am everywhere and not just at home.” This feels more important than ever to remember when you are perhaps part of a minority at work, especially early on in your career, and perhaps mimic the corporate environment around you to try and assimilate, says Priscilla. “If you have fewer female role models out there, then all you can do is mimic what role models you do have (which are men), but it’s important to be true to you whether you are at a coffee machine having a chat or meeting with very senior people.” It’s clearly part of the culture of iTech Media to nurture a diverse workforce, not just in gender, race or another differentiating factor, but in personality type. Everyone shares their Myers Briggs personality type, so the team is aware of everyone’s preferred communication style and strengths and weaknesses – something Priscilla notes particularly helps from a leadership perspective. What is Priscilla’s advice for a career in tech? I couldn’t sit down with Priscilla, who has made a name for herself in tech on both sides of the pond, without asking her advice for those who don’t feel like they fit the typical ‘tech employee’ stereotype on a long, happy career in tech. “Challenge the status quo, honestly, as cliché as it sounds,” says Priscilla. “If you want to work for a company and you don’t meet the requirements reach out. Let them know you’re interested, and you’d love to work for them, even if you don’t meet the requirements but have relevant experience and can show you’re eager. Reach out on LinkedIn and the company’s contact page – be proactive!” “I didn’t hear back for 3 weeks and I thought my application had been discarded, but then out of the blue I was invited for an interview and 2 weeks later I had an offer. It’s easy to look at a job advert and think you don’t fit the bill, and studies show it’s increasingly common among women, so I echo this sentiment completely. Priscilla concludes, “I always tell the story of when I was working as a systems engineer, and I saw a project manager job at Siemens. I looked and thought ‘this is cool – I don’t think I’m going to get it, but I’m going to apply anyway!’” “I didn’t hear back for 3 weeks and I thought my application had been discarded, but then out of the blue I was invited for an interview and 2 weeks later I had an offer. People always say if you don’t ask, you don’t get and if you don’t try you won’t either, so challenge things and even if you see a job that doesn’t fully fit with what you’ve done, show interest.” She adds: “I will 100 percent value a candidate more if they reach out with a unique cover letter and makes it personal and human showing genuine passion about the company and that can demonstrate they’ve got the skills. Our process is designed to explore the person and that they can solve problems and work in a team setting and meet the culture of the company. We’re not interested in the long list of huge courses you’ve done or your degree, we’re just interested in your experience and your ability to work well in a fun environment.” Thank you to Priscilla for the inspiring insight she shared about how diversity is the backbone of her team’s success and for sharing her wisdom on how to build a successful career in tech. Looking to expand your AI & Machine Learning team? Feel free to get in touch to have a chat about how I can help you expand your team to reach your business goals, or if you have any feedback about the series. Read our latest Machine Learning & AI salary survey.

Did you know, when our Head of Machine Learning & AI recruitment, Anna Heneghan, is not filling some of the most exciting, new AI jobs, she’s hosting her very own ‘Diversity in AI’ interview series? In case you missed out, we’ve recapped what we learned from episode one, featuring software engineer Catherine Oxley. Diversity in AI is something I’m truly passionate about. I may not work directly in tech, but every day I am talking to hiring managers and candidates, and whilst there have been positive changes since I joined Understanding Recruitment in 2017, I’m still struck by the lack of women in AI. How do we attract more female-identifying people to jobs in AI, best support them in their career, and keep them in the industry? What needs to change within our education system, hiring processes, and company culture? These are all important questions I want to have an open conversation about, and more, in my new ‘Diversity in AI’ interview series, which you can catch on the UR YouTube channel and recaps on the UR blog if you’re short on time. For my first Diversity in AI interview, I sat down (virtually), with Catherine Oxley, who has made a name for herself working as a software engineer in e-commerce and other sectors, and is currently finishing her Master’s in Computer Science. I am delighted to have placed her in her newest role in the exciting world of AI-driven software technology and was keen to discuss diversity in technology with her – why it is lacking, what impact this could have on the industry, and how we work towards a solution and change things for the better. Why aren’t there many women in AI? The stats speak volumes – according to Diversity in Tech, a recent study showed that two of the biggest barriers for women in tech are lack of mentors (48%) and lack of female role models (42%), and having little support can of course impact gender diversity, as it can cause uncertainty for those who are interested in entering the industry. This feels problematic when you consider that the tech sector is expanding three times faster than the rest of the UK economy, is worth around £184 bn, yet diversity is one of the biggest challenges for the industry. Only 15% of the tech workforce are BAME and gender diversity sits at if you can believe it, 30% less than all other jobs (49% vs 19%). I think these statistics are quite shocking, and that’s why I wanted to talk to Catherine, as someone who has worked so hard to have her place as a woman in AI. Meet Catherine Oxley "I’m a software engineer and I’ve mostly been working in full stack development and front end for the past four years or so and am doing my Master’s degree,” explains Catherine. “I’ve had a strange introduction into software engineering as I’ve done things backwards, but I do think a lot of women are coming into the field later in life. I can’t wait to branch out into a new domain and thanks for helping me find my new role!” she adds. Does education hold women back from careers in tech? We all probably remember the stage in our teenage years when we had to start thinking about what we may want to do as a job. I think a lot of women will resonate with the feeling of subconsciously being pushed towards the arts. I certainly showed skill in ICT but studying felt it was never going to be a conversation. There’s perhaps a damaging presumption that men like maths and sciences and women like the arts holding women back from pursuing studies that will lead them toward a career in tech. “I absolutely think there is, and I think it’s a cultural thing leading to men being more interested in and going onto study those subjects more than women from an early age,” says Catherine. “I didn’t love maths at school, but maths using coding is a lot more interesting and creative than you actually would think at school age!” Catherine took another path initially, completing a French degree and coming back to academia to do her Masters course, where there were around seven women out of a hundred students. “Then you go into the workplace it’s unusual to see many other female developers too.” Can you come to a career in tech later in life? Every day I meet people who show me sometimes all you need is a spark – an interest in tech, and a handful of determination, that can lead to a great career in tech. “Growing up I really enjoyed gaming and I thought I’d love to build the games I’ve been playing. There turned out to be too much of a block degree-wise, but when I started looking at other options and web development stood out as something I also enjoyed that I could get started with quicker.” Catherine is a shining example of how you don’t have to come from the most conventional background. Working in the field as a recruiter, I sometimes see people holding themselves back because I think they think as they’ve not done a certain degree so they can’t go into a specific career. “I realised later in life I was interested in tech in a way that was different from my friends. Even though I’d grown up around computers, it never actually occurred to me it might be something I do in my career,” explains Catherine. A year abroad teaching English lessons about technology and she came to realise it’s what she wanted to do in life. It was not without its struggles however when it comes to academia; “I thought working with coding and mathematical concepts for four years would be enough to get onto a Masters, but it was a big struggle to get universities to believe I could do it. I had to fight hard to get a place.” There are so many blockers in the way for women in tech, being open to individuals who have industry experience, but maybe don’t have the STEM degree, seems like it would be a huge positive for creating a more diverse tech industry. Catherine’s persistency paid off, but it does take that resilience and sometimes the confidence to change paths. “Women do tend to come to it later and it is a hindrance and they can remain junior for longer because they come into it later or are from a different background.” How can we keep women in tech? Individuals like Catherine show what is possible as a woman in tech, but the challenges highlighted by Diversity in Tech can be detrimental. “Women do tend to drop out of tech more than men because there are a lot of barriers especially if you haven’t got that academic environment and have come to it later,” states Catherine. Of course, this is not part of an agenda against anyone who has different pronouns to she/her working in tech. My concern is one identity dominating an industry can prevent others from joining and companies benefitting from other methods or solutions that you could come to, and there being a kind of a bubble that doesn't get broken for a long time. How does Catherine feel things can get better in the long term in the tech industry? “I think targeting girls at younger ages would be beneficial and making conversations around things like maternity leave easy to have.” Catherine also highlights the importance of female peers; “Even though there are not many women developers, I’m really lucky that I’ve worked with quite a few and my last two managers who were at a very senior level were female (which is unusual). It’s been amazing for me to have those role models, but I know a lot of female developers don’t have the same benefit,’ explains Catherine. “I wouldn’t want to put any woman off joining the industry because I think it’s opening up a lot but it [lack of other women] does impact your work and can affect how you feel on a day-to-day basis, especially if you're the only woman on projects or in a job.” She says having female managers had a significant impact on her career; “They understand what you experience and can give you specific advice about how to deal with certain situations.” Catherine pinpoints job adverts as another aspect of the industry potentially holding women in tech back from future career development. “I think job adverts especially for tech can be very intimidating,” she affirms. “There’ll be pages and pages of long requirements and you may not know half of them, but you realise it’s quite normal in this industry and you’re only really expected to tick half and learn the rest.” There’s a stat I read stating that women will make sure they pass every single job requirement before they even apply for a job, whereas men don’t. Catherine’s advice? “If you see a job that you’re missing a few qualifications for, go for it anyway!” What does Catherine value in a tech job? “Personally, what’s most important is the culture and the tech stack,” states Catherine, on what is appealing in a potential employer. “To be always learning is a priority for me. I think it’s quite a common concern in tech that you go stale because technology moving so fast, so I always want to be learning – whether that be a new language, technology, leadership skills, or letting you go do hackathon!” Catherine also stresses the importance of culture too and feeling comfortable in a team due to the atmosphere. “I think there's just as time goes on companies are realising it's not that easy to attract talent and there's so much competition for it,” she says. “Sometimes when you're in a startup or even at a big company you can forget candidates have a lot of options for how they move forward in their career, so it’s essential to be an attractive employer but also promote the right attitude [to inequality].” In terms of future advice for any young people considering a career in tech, Catherine stresses getting involved as early as possible; “Think about what you may need to do as soon as you can. There are so many free resources out there now (like Harvard’s CS50 course) that are so useful for getting started – give it go and I’m sure you’ll find it a lot more fun than you think!” A big thank you to Catherine for being the first to take part in my Diversity in AI series and share her path to working in tech, and I’m very excited to see all she achieves in her new role! Hiring in AI and machine learning? Feel free to get in touch to have a chat about how I can help you expand your team to reach your business goals, or if you have any feedback about the series.

YOURTECHNOLOGYRECRUITMENT​PARTNER.

Our Team

YOUR
TECHNOLOGY
RECRUITMENT
PARTNER.